Finding a decent spot

So i know we all have been talking about a lot of spots, I know DJJoko wants to go to Alaska. I don't think that is a bad idea at all. I know Adam and Chaz have been talking about Washington, wouldn't be bad either.

Since we have lost our spot in GNP this basically needs to be our top priority so we know what kind of surroundings we need to do research on. So whoo, lets get to it than, idk can you guys post new topics as well? Don't really know how all this works so yeah...


-Ryan

48 44'52.44 N 124 48'18.67 W



Looking at Canada i stumbled across this area of land, i did some research and it rarley snows here, and if it does it only sticks for 2-3 days, What you guys think?

I think in canada near all the great lakes i think there are a lot of good spots up there and more tword the boarder, there is the most spots in canada and ak obviously. so i think we should try out canada at some point.

DJJoko, yeah i just looked at that, and Alaska does seem good, except the only real forrests are in the southern part of alaska, well the ones that do not have snow year-round. Whrere ever we decide to go it s going to be a challenge getting us all there. I really like Canada, I mean yeah AK is nice, but that is bear country you know, and the weather is going to get so much more harsher the further north we go.... so yeahi like the area on the pacfic coast near washington/canadian border, but i well check out the great lakes area like you mentioned Adam.


-Ryan

I like the idea of the great lakes I was thinking about doing some reasearch on it myself and as far as canada period I would think just about anywhere from northwest <washington area> to midwest < michigan area> would have excellent areas that we would be able to sneek off to.. My main thing about AK is the weather factor.. Even in the warmest partes of AK witch is what the southeast if Im not mistaken, basicly reaches highs of about 67' F < like I said if IM not mistaken> witch realy isn't bad but thats not to mention the lows..

Its gonna be enough of a challenge to make ourselfs as comfertable as possible without the cold. You must take in concideration all the factors that change with the weather, hunting, fishing, farming, not to mention our bodies... I've been living in Las Vegas NV for about 20 years and to go from 120' F in the summer and 60' - 80' f in the winter it might have some harsh reactions on my bodie..

please comment back...

google maps just north of north Dakota. All the lakes looks sweet.

I think we should just start looking there, now. Save our time and just get ready.

Yes or no?

Any state in the U.S. (barring one, which I won't mention) is a very bad idea. It may seem like there are vast forests here where this could work... but they aren't a deep as you might think. I look out the window here in PA and wonder how you'd ever be found out in all these woods. The reality is, you would. If you don't believe it, do more research. I'm certain you'll come to the same conclusion.

I hate to be the rain on the parade, guys. I really do.

Not sure what you are getting at.

We need to ,ake this work, i have been looking throughout the internet, google earth, and all sorts of other forums, and cant find just a decent spot to hunker down in. I want to do this by this spring, so are we all going to agree and pitch in and fimd somewhere are what?

This is pretty frustrting to say the least!

-Ryan

Im down with alaska. I can drive to Ocala and pick up Chaz and head to Washington state to drop off my car. Then its either hitching a ride to alaska or flying to alaska. I really just dont want to discuss where were going anymore and just think about supplies and what else we would need.

Ben

Guys, I'm so eager to get out of here that I can barely function throughout the day. If anyone wants to just plunge into this, it's me.

This discussion has only been open now for 2 weeks and already there is frustration mounting. Don't loose site of what's being discussed here. This decision could be one that could cost your life.

I don't know myself if AK will work or not. The only thing I know is that it's the best I've come across so far. The best so far doesn't mean the best overall. I have huge reserves about going there too. In fact, it scares the hell out of me.

If you all begin looking at Alaska like I have, then go back to that post I made in the "Get This Started" topic... and scroll down to the "just my thoughts" comment I left. There is some good info on AK that might help get a broader picture of AK. See what you guys come up with.

This is a very important decision. We don't want to go running out into no-man's land without being informed.

John

Alaska does seem like the place you would need, to never be discovered. Like you said you are going out there and never coming back. YOu are the one who needs to be the most cautious. What about that guy who said we could maybe use a cabin? What is the whole deal with that?

DJJoko (John) wrote:This is a very important decision. We don't want to go running out into no-man's land without being informed.

Yes i also agree, but the whole point of getting a spot choosen now, is so we can do the RESEARCH NOW!!! So we well be informed about what we are doing.

Just like V.I. it seems i was really looking into everything there doing the resaerch, and that led me to the hiking trail whick completly fucked that plan up, so alaska or some other place where we well not be discovered.

BTW why dont you ever respond to my messages on myspace dude? Gets pretty anoying.

I am the one who needs to be more cautious, Ryan. When I realized that we all have different expectations, that's when I wrote the post, "What are you expectations?". I do need to be more cautious, and even more remote than probably the rest of you. Some people want to go back and forth between the wilderness and civilization. They would probably not want to be out so far for that reason. I want to get out as far as a can. I already know what I'll be doing once I get to that spot... and my first priority will be to start building. I have too much respect for mother nature and the kind of cold she can whip at you. I refuse to find myself in October with my pants down... with no real airtight structure or fireplace within. I wouldn't dream of trying to pull off an entire winter in any cold climate in just a tent. I will absolutely be building a fortress of a cabin.

I don't want to expend all the energy and supplies in building that fortress, only to have it be snatched away by some official who says I don't have the right to live there, even if minding my own business and being considerate of the environment. That would kill me to loose everything that way... I just can't allow that for myself.

If I go there alone, to wherever that place may be, I'm OK with it. If others have the same ultimate goal but want to live a little riskier so that they can be a little closer to society, I can completely understand and respect that. It would simply mean that we couldn't go there together.

This is tough... keeping up with all the info flying around here, much less on MySpace too. If you send me a PM on this site, I will check it and it will be easier to respond. Two messages ago though (on MySpace), you'd again asked me about V.I., which I realized I had already sort of shot down a few times before. I didn't respond to it because you probably wouldn't care to hear more negativity about it. I decided to let you and everyone else discuss it and come to your own conclusion, be it to go there or not. I just didn't know how else to tell you I wasn't comfortable with it, and had no intention of going there myself... simply for my own necessities or expectations.

But anyway, as for the guy in AK who has the cabins goes... He had a cabin-sitting position posted on Couchsurfing.com which I responded to. He wanted someone for Nov and Dec. I thought it might be a great opportunity, since he was not far from Anchorage. I contacted him and through discussing it all, I realized I simply wouldn't be ready in time for Nov. He was OK with that, but did say that the offer to use his 2nd cabin would still be open, for whenever I'd need to use it. He said that, thinking it was just me, though. I don't know how he'd feel about others coming there too so I'd have to ask him about that. That step I think, is best to wait on until everyone decides if they'd even want to go to that area. If so, I'll absolutely ask him... and I get the impression that he probably wouldn't mind --if it was only for a short period of time. That's the story of the guy with the cabin.

I know that a lot of you are leary of AK, as am I. I can provide the info I have found on it (as I have some already) but I don't want anyone feeling I am taking charge. I feel I have to take a step back now and let you guys do some research yourselves, to see what you think about AK.

So who is up for AK, anyway? All in favor, say "I". If enough say yes, then we can bombard the net with searches for the right spot. AK is humongous, but first the decision needs to be unanimous about it at all... then the search can begin for which part in it.

Peace...

John

Okay well you say you want to just get out there and build, do you have any building exp.? And with you saying you never want to go back ya i feel you on that but have you ever done any thing like this to prepare your body and mind?? I know i haven't and im taking advantage of this winter to get ready!

So where are these cabins located? I would like to check this place out on google earth. Is this the spot you also want to build your own shelter?

Yeah i know now you did not want to go there, but this is a group if you have a problem i want you and everyone else to voice them!! Not just sit idly by and wait for someone to come around to there own realization you know? All that effort i put towards v.i. i want to see you put towards Alaska. So what if not everyone is sure where they want to go. If you have the information to help make a decisions one way or another then give it!! I know you have already made a nice long post about some things you know, but just get it all out there okay? This site is for the sharing of information and making our plans work!! We need to do that PERIOD.

So with that being said, I dont know about Alaska, i just dont. Not yet. So now we go around again...

-ryan

ok I would love to go to that cabin and check ou the land. And see wat it is all about so yes john you know I'm down to go.

Come on guys this is suppost to be something we do together. If you guys are going to argue about myspace responds and building experience then we'll never get on point. I feel like this is going no where and were not going to be leaving in spring since we cant even figure out where were going in the first place. I dont like drama and one of the reasons im leaving is because of all the negativity that human drama brings. Please lets not try and tell anyone negative things. Were human beings and we can talk about it. I really wanna go to Alaska. I also would go anywhere else. Just as long as were away from civilization.

I didn't realize this was turning into an argument. I simply won't go there.

I don't have much time right now to compile all the info I've found on Alaska, but I'll work on it tonight and post it all by morning.

The guy with the cabins is not where I'd ultimately like to land... but he's not far. Maybe a couple of hour's drive away? It's in a little place called, "Clam Gulch". I have yet to figure out exactly where in AK myself, but I can say that all I've learned about it keeps pushing me somewhere around Anchorage. The weather is decently mild there (for AK), accessibility is better there (there aren't even many highways throughout the state) as they even have an airport (international, I think).

More soon...

Hey, well i am not trying to stir the pot, or piss anyone off here. All i was saying is that we all need to get on this thing and ride it out. Ben, i dunno if we well be ready by spring. I mean seriously chaz and i started talking on myspace about this awhile ago. We had decided on GNP started planning that one out, found it unsuitable, moved on to searching again only to find the next spot just as useless. This is so hard, just to find a spot, i mean seriously is there even a realistic spot to head anymore where we well have enough experince??? I mean alaska sounds great , and it seems to be out last choice, but i know im not ready for a winter up there. I know i couldnt survive a winter now where i used to live.

I'm not trying to piss any of you off, if i have sorry.

Ok guys, here is all the info I have found on AK, and why exactly it has been on my mind for so long now. I'll just throw all the info at you. You can be the judge.
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Firstly, the issue of population comes up...

The size of AK is, "larger than Texas, California and Montana combined" --http://www.netstate.com/states/intro/ak_intro.htm

"As of 2007, the population [for all of AK] was 683,478 with approximately 50% residing along the Anchorage metropolitan areas." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska

Keep in mind that NYC alone is, "estimated at 19,750,000 people" --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City

Right away, it is easy to see why AK is a good spot, population-wise to be able to go out into its wilderderness and not be found. This is a key point, if you understand the legalities of squatting.
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Secondly, mother nature:

Overall, the coldest Anchorage gets is between -30 and -40 degrees... and that is the extreme, not the average. --http://www.heirloomseeds.com/alaska.htm

With the extremes now being mentioned, here are the average temps (which suddenly look a whole lot better):

http://alaska-proxy.nandomedia.com/about/weather/story/4481284p-4775749c.html

On average, it doesn't get any colder than 8 degrees (F) and warms up to around 65 degrees (F) in the summer.

Granted, if it plunges down to -35 in AK, that is bitterly cold and must feel like a bitch... but it can't last very long. It would just be a matter then of riding out the storm for a while. Here in PA we deal with those average temps all the time. Overall, AK's weather really isn't much different than PA at all. If people can survive the cold in PA (when prepared, of course), then they can survive it in Anchorage.

As far as daylight hours during winter go, there is a big myth (and I used to think it too) that AK has long periods of darkness in the winter. Forget that. That only occurs in the farthest northern points of AK. Anchorage, at it's very worst, still gets more than 5.5 hours of daylight per day, and that's only during January. In February, it jumps to nearly 7.5 hours of daylight per day. It keeps jumping like that until its peak in July. At that point, its over 19 hours of daylight. --http://www.absak.com/library/average-annual-insolation-alaska

Can you imagine? Light from 6 a.m. until 1 a.m. ? To be in awe over this, you'd have to really consider what that would mean. All those hours of daylight, to build your cabin, hunt, fish, or do whatever needed to be done. The greatest attribute for me is the growing, and I'm sure Adam will understand this. The longer the daylight hours are, the more time plants have to grow. Plants and their growth shuts down when the sun goes down. As long as the sun continues to shine, the plants keep soaking the rays up and continue growing. This is why AK grows the largest vegetables, for example, of any place. Bigger fruits and vegetables mean more food supplies. It's astounding.

You might think, "big deal, so what?"... but anyone who knows growing knows this is a very big deal, when your very purpose for growing is to produce crops of high yields in a very short period of time.
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The flora:

I'm not sure where the idea came up that AK only has trees in the southern part. Anchorage has, "The second largest national forest" --http://www.hotelsbycity.net/guides/usa/alaska/anchorage/

Southern AK actually has the fewest trees, as the terrain is very rocky from volcanic activity.

Trees, like all plants, benefit from AK's long daylight hours. A strange phenomenon occurs there with the trees, just as with the fruits and vegetables. Though the growing season in AK is shorter, identical species of trees in the northern regions of the U.S. (Colorado, Montana, etc) grow much slower and not as big as their counterparts in AK. I would have guessed the short warm period and bitter cold of winter would either kill or at least stunt the tree's growth, but it's just the opposite. It is all due to the longer daylight hours of summer. Not only do trees grow in AK's interior, but they flourish.
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I'll keep posting more info as I gather it back together (keeping in mind, I'd come across all this info months ago).[b]

So far I like everyrthing you guyus are talking about. Thanks for all the info John and Ryan. Well here is a location I have found. This is just a suggestion by the way.

First if you go to this site:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=alexander%20lake%20alaska&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

Coordinates: 61°42'58.63"N 150°11'44.66"W

You can see where we would start in anchorage and travel 81 miles to the city of Willow. We would then head west to the Sustina River area which still has roads. That's where we would then head southwest on foot along this river and find an area.

This is the one I like. Coordinates: 61°40'19.21"N 150°17'55.44"W

Right by the mouth of a smaller river that connects with Sustina should be plentyful of food.

There are lots of locations between the mountains that surround the Sustina River. It would be an awesome area to look for sites. Let me know what you think.

Oh and also, I wanted to let you guys know that I know how to build a cabin. Only with an axe, hatchet and bow saw.

Later guys,
Ben

Hi, Ben.

The 2nd set of coordinates look good. That whole area looks good, in fact. I think it's well worth exploring, which is what I'm doing now. It has a lot of trees, it's near water, and it's in a decent temperature zone. Best of all, it doesn't look populated.

I'm glad to hear you know how to build, Ben. I have built two small houses myself and nearly started my own woodworking business a few years ago... and can't tell you how many houses I've repaired and remodeled... so I'm no stranger to construction and woodworking in general.

I also found how really simple a log cabin is, structurally. The only hard part would be the labor required to work with the trees and logs. I have no doubt that we could build a very solid cabin... very insulated, and with a cooking and heating fireplace inside to keep us warm all winter long.

Anyway, I'm going to explore more. I have work in a little while, so I may not get to post again until later tonight.

Thanks, Ben...

John

Hey ben, did you notice there seems to be a few houses scatered along the other side of the stream that leads to the river?

Not a big deal, but i like the spot so far, seems pretty good terain wise.

Thanks for the info john.

Guess i well start doing some looking into the area up there as well. oh and clam gulch as you said john is located here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Clam+Gulch&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBS&um=1&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title

not sure if that is the right thing you and that guy were talking about but yeah.

Alright then.

Not to be a big downer, but the Susitna valley is a huge recreational mecca for that 50% of the state's population that lives in Anchorage and surrounding areas. In the summer, the river is lined with fisherman and the trails are filled with ATVs. In the winter, it's all about hunting and snowmachineing.

This wouldn't be too big a deal if you guys pooled some resources and bought a plot of land to at least set the cabin and garden on. You could possibly go a long time without ever seeing anyone, really, (except along the rivers in the summer, for sure.)

However, unless you first ran title searches on the land you're looking at squatting on, you will DEFINITELY run the risk of being booted off the land at any moment, which would suck.

Take a look at this: http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/mlw/landsale/

The state sell plots of land really cheap in remote areas. Don't let the "subdivision" shit scare you. The reality is that most of the lots will be bought up by people that will never even see the land, much less live on it. (Even part time.)

Also, there are currently plots available outside of Willow in the general area you guys are talking about, and beyond.

Ya I dont know if I want to be living next to some random people right next us. I want to be away from people that beileve in our society. So ya.

Rachel, this is exactly where I think you could be of great assitance.

Who, other than someone who lives in AK, would know that the area is a huge sort of "tourist attraction" in the summer? This is why I said I was very interested in what you had to say. Those of us who live in the lower 49 wouldn't know this sort of thing, until maybe it was too late.

Rachel, if you were going too (and I know you aren't quite ready yet), where around this area would you be looking at the hardest? --or maybe a better way of asking, is there a place near here that you yourself would dare explore, if you knew you didn't want to be found?

John